Curse

Mad5cout · Nov 26, 2006, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Okay I already wrote a thread on this that was locked but I will re-write and contain my frustration so that the information actually gets into the public knowledge:

Lightbringer titles are the ONLY title in the game that actually have in game benefits, especially in the later missions of NF. Once you get a new rank in the LB title track, make sure you go to the Lightbringer Rank Officer in the Chantry of Secrets. He will give you new skills and an aura/buff that upgrades as you advance in rank.

For each rank of LB, you will have a 5% damage increase on your attacks (I believe this includes spells) and a +1 damage reduction for all Abaddon's minions. (that is Margonites, Shadow Warriors, Torment Minions, Varesh, and Abaddon himself). That means as a rank 4, you would have +20% damage to these foes and a +4 damage reduction (constant, not 20% chance).

This is relatively significant as most people will drop 60K or more for a 15%^50 modded weapon and 30K for a +5 damage redux (20% chance) shield...

This bonus is only effective when the lightbringer title is checked in your hero menu.

Lightbringer gaze is seemingly weak when you first obtain it but to give you an idea of what it becomes when you are a higher level. At lvl 4 when I cast, I deal 100+ damage to 5 of the Abaddon minions it is cast at and it interrupts the foe you cast it on. Imagine what a Holy LB would do... Probably about 200 damage to up to 9 foes + the interrupt. They would have a +40% damage bonus and +8 damage reduction. You can't buy bonuses like that.

Ever tried Battle of Turai's Procession with henchies and heroes? Or the Master's quest in Gates of Torment? Get frustrated after getting wasted over and over? Imagine an entire Holy LB group spamming LB gaze. Or better yet, Echo Gazers... You could cast Gaze dealing about 200 Damage to up to 9 foes 16 times in a matter of seconds. That's approximately 3200 damage to 9 foes in less than 30 seconds...

When I am standing in Ruins of Morah trying to put together a masters group, I don't care if you have mapped all of Cantha, capped 100 elite skills, opened 15000 chests, or actually played drunk for 10,000 hours. What I do care about is people who will do a significantly higher amout of damage, have a skill that is massive AEO damage that will interrupt enemy healers and nukers, and require less healing as a result of their LB rank.

Think about it...

LordDeArnise · Nov 26, 2006, 05:56 AM // 05:56

You know, the moderators are right when they closed your first thread. Not everyone have the time or the committment to put in those many needed hours of repetitive fighting to obtain Lightbringer Rank 8. Granted, those Realm of Torment quests can help in boosting up Lightbringer pts, but players are still looking at many hours of time spent in Desolation, Vabbi, and Realm of Torment, killing thousands of Elementals, Margonites, and ultra tough Torment Creatures.

I can understand your apparent frustration, based on your closed thread. Yes, the Torment creatures can shred groups in seconds if they aggro wrong, but you have to remember that not everyone will be able to committ countless hours of killing and farming to obtain Lightbringer Rank 8, and the torment quests and missions are still manageable even if a player has only 1-2 Ranks of Lightbringer. So please consider other players' circumstances before you go out and try to "persuade" every GW players who have NF to spend a few days' worth of gameplay - about a week or so of gametime - raising up their Lightbringer Ranks.

Jade_Onyx · Nov 26, 2006, 06:21 AM // 06:21

If you're going to rant get the facts straight. Lightbringers Gaze does 100 holy damage, AT EVERY LEVEL. So at rank 8, you hit 9 foes for 100 holy damage (less after reductions) and interupt your target. You rarely get more then 9 foes, but assuming you are always hitting 9 foes, thats only 800 damage to 9 foes every 30 seconds (1600 if you are echoing it, which seems strange since most characters wont have echo on their characters).

This is not required in the game, as many people have gone through the game and beaten it before reaching rank 2-3 lightbringer (and yes getting masters). The only problems most people are having comes from the second to last mission (look it up or wait and find out if you dont know, but be warned, spoilers) and lightbringers gaze and the titles dont even work there.

Sorry, I just don't know why you think your team should be rank 8ish lightbringer to get masters for the missions (later missions only). Will it make it easier? Yes...but not really, seeing as you have to farm the points in the first place. And if you can farm those points, then either your computer needs rest or you arn't having any problems killing things.

Amity and Truth · Nov 26, 2006, 06:37 AM // 06:37

Well the way i'm doing it is:
Show whatever title i feel like showing and then activate LB in the mission itself. Yes it offers some advantages but nowhere near enough to hamper with my decision which title to show.
Besides, Explorer Title shows dedication. Elitehunter Title shows experience with skills. What more to ask for? Experience and Dedicatoin > LB Title.

OlMurraniKasale · Nov 26, 2006, 06:50 AM // 06:50

I agree with the OP. Use the given title for what you can get. I believe the POINT of the thread is to make people aware that this extra damage is available - consider the OP a news outlet and stop lambasting him for wanting something you don't want. Anyone else who asks "what's the point" isn't getting the point. You don't need the title, but if you got it, flaunt it! The Torment beasties sure love to use their special skills on you - time to turn the tables.

aohige · Nov 26, 2006, 08:01 AM // 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jade_Onyx

If you're going to rant get the facts straight. Lightbringers Gaze does 100 holy damage, AT EVERY LEVEL. So at rank 8, you hit 9 foes for 100 holy damage (less after reductions) and interupt your target. You rarely get more then 9 foes, but assuming you are always hitting 9 foes, thats only 800 damage to 9 foes every 30 seconds (1600 if you are echoing it, which seems strange since most characters wont have echo on their characters).

Actually, lightbringer rank affects all forms of direct damage, including spell and skills. And interestingly enough, Lightbringer Gaze is no exception.
I'm at rank8 right now, and it hits for higher damage than the default 100.

Btw, Lightbringer Gaze is NOT armor ignoring, and therefore deals much less damage to higher AR Torments.
The damage increase is most noticable against Margonite. I belive a Margonite spellcaster takes exactly 100 dmg from Gaze at around rank 4 or 5.
However, the increase is pretty slight, and nowhere near as dramatic as what Mad5cout suggests.

Jade_Onyx · Nov 26, 2006, 08:14 AM // 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by aohige

Actually, lightbringer rank affects all forms of direct damage, including spell and skills. And interestingly enough, Lightbringer Gaze is no exception.
I'm at rank8 right now, and it hits for higher damage than the default 100.

Btw, Lightbringer Gaze is NOT armor ignoring, and therefore deals much less damage to higher AR Torments.
The damage increase is most noticable against Margonite. I belive a Margonite spellcaster takes exactly 100 dmg from Gaze at around rank 4 or 5.
However, the increase is pretty slight, and nowhere near as dramatic as what Mad5cout suggests.

I was just saying that the skill doesn't increase in damage at higher ranks, in case the op or anyone else thought they might. I wasn't including any extra damage you get from lightbringers title. And yes, I'm aware that it isn't armour ignoring, but its good to bring up anyways, to help those that might be confused about not seeing 100s about the enemies heads.

cba · Nov 26, 2006, 11:46 AM // 11:46

To get the Elona Protector title, Lightbringer Ranks are not needed. If you have good healing, you won't miss the damage reduction much. I want Max Lightbringer just to show off, not for any bonus really.

Maxiemonster · Nov 26, 2006, 01:08 PM // 13:08

But it takes 50 hours or something if you have a good group, many people don't want to put that much time in a title.

First of all, I'm a Monk, I can use the damage reduction, but I won't get much out of the extra damage (even though I always take Gaze with me when fighting Abbadon's creatures). And still, it's only about 1/4th of one chapter, that's really not worth 50 hours to me. - I'll get it anyway though, I need it for PKM

Cyan The Archer · Nov 26, 2006, 03:02 PM // 15:02

I would agree that a tier 8 group would be awesome, but not needed. A permanent lvl 5 Shielding Hands on everyone, and +40% with huge firepower.

I wont invite any players in The Realm of Torment who dont want to use their Lightbringer title. I dont care about their rank in it, as long as they use it.

Rera · Nov 26, 2006, 03:52 PM // 15:52

LB rank is most noticeable on warriors, to the point where I consider r4+ simply mandatory for Realm of Torment. Warriors do a *lot* of damage at higher ranks, and the 8 damage reduction is most effective on warriors due to their innately high armor. There is actually quite a severe difference between an r8 warrior and an r0 warrior.

Lightbringer's Gaze is not to be underestimated. While it isn't strictly necessary, it makes the Realm of Torment easier by entire orders of magnitude. Everyone in your party should bring it, including your monks. Aside from the spiking potential in a coordinated team, the constant interrupts makes it impossible for the torment creatures to actually do anything before they die. An r8 team simply steamrolls the Realm of Torment.

zen321u · Nov 26, 2006, 07:08 PM // 19:08

A couple of the titles have a bonus. Wisodm and treasure hunter has a better salvage rate. I enjoy the use of that, as well as LightBringer, so I'm working on that title.

Zinger314 · Nov 26, 2006, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

Lightbringer's Gaze is not to be underestimated. While it isn't strictly necessary, it makes the Realm of Torment easier by entire orders of magnitude. Everyone in your party should bring it, including your monks. Aside from the spiking potential in a coordinated team, the constant interrupts makes it impossible for the torment creatures to actually do anything before they die. An r8 team simply steamrolls the Realm of Torment.

Therein lies the problem: If you have an r8 team, why are you even in the Realm of Torment anymore?

AlienFromBeyond · Nov 26, 2006, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Therein lies the problem: If you have an r8 team, why are you even in the Realm of Torment anymore?

The same reason you do any area more than once.

The loot!

Amity and Truth · Nov 26, 2006, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Wait, there is loot in Nightfall?

Rera · Nov 26, 2006, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Therein lies the problem: If you have an r8 team, why are you even in the Realm of Torment anymore?

Your statement leads to this logical progression:

1) You imply that the only reason to be in the Realm of Torment is to farm LB points.
2) But the main advantage of LB rank is to be more powerful in the Realm of Torment.
3) If we consider 1) and 2) together, the entire point of LB rank is to farm LB faster.

Now, this would result in the conclusion that LB rank is self-defeating (the only point of having it is to make getting it faster ...), if not for the fact that the upcoming elite mission is likely to be a Torment area ...

I also don't agree with what you're implying, since there are any number of things you could be doing in the Realm of Torment that are not at all related to farming Lightbringer points: doing quests, farming items, elite skill capping, etc.

Night Winde · Nov 26, 2006, 08:39 PM // 20:39

So does having the lightbringer title active while hanging around in a staging area indicate a players skill or give any indicator that adding that person to your team will ensure success of the mission? I think we've all seen the answer to both is usually no.

I've already seen threads where people talk about AFK farming lightbringer points. Great so now I have an R6 lightbringer in the group that still doesn't know how to play their char or their class. I'd rather have someone with no lightbringer rank that knows the skill set for their char, understands when to kill something and when to avoid it/bypass it, knows which targets to hit first and so on.

I toook my oldest char (a ranger) from Tyria through the game and am ready to do Gate of Madness. I have to go back and re-do Gate of Pain for Masters since the group I ended up in freed all the lost souls before killing the elite emisaries.

The first time in the team got wiped all except for myself and a monk. We had the joy of seeing our dead teammates say that the Monk can't heal and the Ranger (me) is only good for interrupts. 15 minutes later the Monk and I were still killing things and trying to clear a path to rez our dead team. We each had Gaze and R3 in lightbringer. The monk could heal and I was certainly doing more than interrupts. At that point does your lightbringer rank matter? No. With just the two of us it was hell trying to take out Arms of Insanity but we got a few by carefull pulling and aggro control. We didn't learn that by farming lightbringer points.

Is it helpful? Yes. Is it necessary or required? No.

I have both Tyrian and Elonian Grandmaster Cartographer titles on this char as well as Protector of Tyria. I'm proud of my Grandmaster titles, I worked damn hard for them and I intend to display them not my lightbringer rank. I can turn my lightbringer rank on as soon as we load into the mission, no one can see your title in a mission or explorable area anyway.

Don't want to group with someone who doesn't display their lightbringer title while wasting time in a staging area? Fine by me since it doesn't indicate in any way a players skill or ensure the success of a mission it's a pretty weak criteria for building a team. Asking people once they're in team chat if they have Gaze (which indicates R2 at least) and recommending everyone activate their title before going in makes more sense.

But if some of you want to rely on that as your barometer of success when picking players for your group think about this:

Skill Hunter - Took a lot of time (and gold for buying all the cap sigs) to get a title there. Not to mention the fact that they had to kill a boss for each skill. Must know something about the game.

Protector - Not as good an indicator since depending on the campaign they could have gotten run through missions or just brute forced their way through but still an indicator of some level of experience with missions and gameplay.

Cartographer titles - Once you're into the 90% + range you are generally doing this by yourself with hero/hench since most people just want to rampage through an area as fast as they can and won't wait for a person to map the zone. Whether they use a running build to map it or fight their way through either one takes some skill and understanding of character setup.

Anyone who has made R2 in lightbringer should know how this works. If they've gotten Gaze and can read (probably the most debatable part) they should know how the title works. If they haven't gotten Gaze and have enought points for R2 they should be wondering why they aren't getting anymore blessings (the green exclamation point over the priests should tell them something, if it doesn't I'd worry about having them on a team).

This is an assist, nothing more. It's no different than having SS or SV equipped on a Necro before doing Gate of Madness. It makes it easier but doesn't mean Masters is in the bag. Plenty of teams have gotten Masters in there without an SS or SV necro, some without even taking a Necro. Plenty of teams have gotten wiped in there even with an SV necro, everyone packing Gaze, and following the tips/spoilers for that mission that are outlined in the forum.

Having the skill or the build or the title doesn't mean squat if you don't know how to use it, don't understand pulling, aggro control, target priorities, etc. etc.

As someone has said (in general) PuG's are lousy. But they can be more fun and are definitely faster if everyone knows what they are doing. But even if everyone in the group was R8 and had Gaze and the Signet doesn't mean much if they don't coordinate, communicate, pay attention, etc. etc.

To be honest I get the impression that this thread was started by someone looking for an excuse as to why the teams they end up in can't get through the RoT in which case the lightbringer title becomes a good excuse. It's probably not the reason but it is a good excuse.

Good luck and good hunting everyone.

Cyan The Archer · Nov 26, 2006, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Night Winde

I've already seen threads where people talk about AFK farming lightbringer points. Great so now I have an R6 lightbringer in the group that still doesn't know how to play their char or their class. I'd rather have someone with no lightbringer rank that knows the skill set for their char, understands when to kill something and when to avoid it/bypass it, knows which targets to hit first and so on.

But how are we supposed to know if the r0 is better than the r6? Better bring a r6 than the r0. I would NEVER take the r0 in The Realm of Torment. Why? Because that player obviously didnt do much except for rushing through the storyline. R1 can do for me, as long as the person WILL WEAR THE TITLE. At least a high ranked LB took their time to afk it, because it isnt THAT easy to put up a working afk build that gives points fast.

I'm r8 LB myself, and i know how to play the game. I did the LB afk farm because i wanted the title before it was nerfed, and because i had other stuff to do in real life.

anshin · Nov 26, 2006, 11:17 PM // 23:17

imo...there are only three titles that are useless...the protector titles...

except maybe for the elonian....because it is somewhat strange following two storylines at the same time...

anyways.... i rather show the title Spearmarshal than LB r8(what does rx mean?)

i think this topic is useful because i didn't know there was so much into the Lightbringer title...but that WON'T turn this title into a criteria i will use when forming parties....

Rera · Nov 26, 2006, 11:24 PM // 23:24

@Night Winde:

Nobody is claiming that the LB title is absolutely necessary for beating the game. Many people do everything with henchmen, and they have no LB rank.

The main thing to consider here is that LB rank does confer a substantial advantage, and without the ability to determine other (arguably more important) factors, someone with a higher LB rank is more desirable.

Let's take your SS/SV necro for Gates of Madness example. Say I'm in a group 7/8 LF necro to go. There happens to be two necros who want to join. They're both random people I have never seen before, so I have no clue who is the better player. However, one of them has SS/SV, and the other does not. Which necro do you think I'm going to take?

The point is that LB rank, while not at all an indicator of player competence, *does* give players a significant advantage. A moron is still a moron no matter what LB rank he has, but at least the r8 moron will do more damage and take less.